{"id":4927,"date":"2019-03-18T17:16:14","date_gmt":"2019-03-18T14:16:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/?p=4927"},"modified":"2019-03-19T18:14:00","modified_gmt":"2019-03-19T15:14:00","slug":"vasyl-khmelnytsky-there-are-three-things-i-don-t-engage-with-weapons-drugs-and-business-in-donetsk","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/vasyl-khmelnytsky-there-are-three-things-i-don-t-engage-with-weapons-drugs-and-business-in-donetsk\/","title":{"rendered":"Vasyl Khmelnytsky: There are three things I don\u2019t engage with – weapons, drugs and business in Donetsk"},"content":{"rendered":"

His assets include \u201cKyiv\u201d Airport, Unit.City and the UDP company, which implemented the \u201cNovopecherski Lypky\u201d, \u201cParkove Mistechko\u201d and \u201cOcean Plaza\u201d projects, as well as hundreds of hectares of land in Kyiv city area. How was the Khmelnytsky Empire built and what does Kyiv government have to do with it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Vasyl Khmelnytsky was retrained from welder to businessmen by his friend\u2019s from the student\u2019s days brother, Russian millionaire Dmitrii Varvarin.<\/span><\/p>\n

In 2000, Varvarin was killed near his own house in St. Petersburg.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Back then, Khmelnytsky had already moved to Ukraine, where he was developing his own business. However, the businessman remembered his teacher\u2019s tragic decease for the rest of his life: for 20 years of its history, Khmelnytsky-controlled Kyiv Investment Group (KIG) has never been a participant in major corporate wars.<\/span><\/p>\n

This fact is especially surprising considering that the field where Khmelnytsky has been playing all these years is extremely conflicting: land resources and real estate. One can be successful here only upon condition of having a well-established relationship with the city authorities. Khmelnytsky neither denies these connections, nor considers them to be so close.<\/span><\/p>\n

People with good memory find it difficult to agree with this assessment.<\/span><\/p>\n

They didn\u2019t forget neither\u00a0<\/span>notorious<\/span><\/a>\u00a0\u201cKyivenergoholding\u201d, created by then-mayor of Kyiv Oleksandr Omelchenko with Khmelnytsky\u2019s offshore companies, nor the additional issue of \u201cKhreschatyk\u201d bank shares under another mayor Leonid Chernovetskyi, which resulted in the city\u2019s share \u201cdilution\u201d in favour of companies affiliated with KIG.<\/span><\/p>\n

To Khmelnytsky\u2019s credit, he is ready to talk about the events of those days, although quite briefly. Now he is more interested in the future: since recently Khmelnytsky is developing the UFuture business group. The most liquid assets of a businessman are outsourced for its management. Khmelnytsky is also engaged in completely new projects.<\/span><\/p>\n

He considers Unit.City \u2013 a business quarter under construction in Kyiv, for just the high-tech sector companies \u2013 to be his most promising project.<\/span><\/p>\n

To turn this project into Ukrainian \u201cSilicon Valley\u201d, Khmelnytsky is ready to invest in it over the next ten years. By the way, Unit.City is built on the land of the plant, which the businessman bought from the SPF for the production of motorcycles.<\/span><\/p>\n

We talked about his buying up energy companies, metallurgical plants and the MPPs, his relations with the three Kyiv heads, his desire to leave the country after he had met with the presidents of Ukraine, about his deal with Yurii Ivanushchenko, and the planned one with Arkady Rotenberg, as well as about his plans to develop the UFuture group projects.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cI won a box of champagne from a guy who produced real diamonds, while we made artificial ones\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYou were a fellow student of Oleksandr Varvarin, the brother of a prominent Russian businessman Dmitrii Varvarin <\/b>(founder of the<\/span><\/i>\u00a0<\/span>\u201cOrimi\u201d concern<\/span><\/a>\u00a0<\/span>\u2014\u00a0EP)<\/span><\/i>, whom you started working under. Did you do business before?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNo.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cSo, it turns out it was Dmitrii Varvarin who brought you into the business?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIt was his brother Sasha. We lived on the same floor of a dorm. We were both builders, and his older brother had a cooperative building society. First, I went to work for him as a worker. It was in 1988.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>Can you say that you entered the business thanks to this acquaintance? If it were not for it, would you work as a welder, within your specialty?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t know. Maybe not, maybe yes. Maybe I would have been in another company, an oil one. Would be a super oilfield worker.<\/span><\/p>\n

I have a business acumen. I’m from a poor family. I strived to succeed, was looking for opportunities. Those who seek opportunities will find them sooner or later. At that time, I found an opportunity there, in the building trade. Even now I invest in construction sites. 30 years have passed, but I\u2019m still walking down this road.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat, besides the oil direction, were you responsible for in the \u201cOrimi\u201d concern?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cFirst there was building trade, then \u2013 the oilfield direction. We came into the oil industry by accident: we were engaged in well surveying and repair, but for this work they gave us not money, but oil. And so, it began: we refined oil and got gasoline. Then we sold it. We had built a good business.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhen did you separate from Varvarins and become an independent businessman?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIn 1992, when I moved to Ukraine.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhy did you move to Ukraine?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

We supplied oil products made of our oil to Ukraine. There was a branch network already. I was responsible for it.<\/span><\/p>\n

When the Soviet Union collapsed, I had a choice between Ukraine and Russia. My mother, my brother, all my friends live here, and I made my choice realizing that I would have to not only make money, but change my life.<\/span><\/p>\n

I chose Ukraine. Varvarin and I wrote down the balance sheets and I returned the money I took from him within a year literally, and then I began working independently.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAt the time you broke up, were you an equal partner of Varvarin?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNo, I was certainly a minor one. When we broke up, Varvarin got a bigger share, mine was smaller. I got enough with that share. At that time, there were much more innovations in Russia were than in Ukraine: they began privatization, exchanges were opened. When I returned to Kyiv, I had more skills than the local businessmen, it was easier for me to start a business here. I brought here 180 thousand dollars then.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Andrii Ivanov<\/b><\/a> became your main business partner in Ukraine. You met him in \u201cOrimi\u201d. Why did Ivanov move here with you?<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIt was Dmitrii Varvarin who introduced me to Andrii Ivanov. He was on a vacation in the Crimea and somehow met Andrii in Sevastopol. So Andrii became the head of \u201cOrimi\u201d oilfield direction, and I was the deputy director.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhy did he come to Ukraine with you?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIvanov is from Ukraine too, from Sevastopol. He had to choose between Sasha Varvarin and me: to stay with him or to go with me. Sasha was a very kind and religious guy, but he devoted less time to business. He was not as pragmatic as me. Probably less efficient. So Andrii probably thought that I was more hard-working and productive.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhy did Ivanov change his last name from Dirnberger?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cHe was thinking of changing his last name to a more European one when he planned to develop business in Austria. I didn\u2019t follow what happened next. I always knew him as Ivanov.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAfter moving to Ukraine, you bought asset after asset: from Poltava Diamond Plant to Donbasenergo. Did you buy everything in sight?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWe worked as an investment fund. The market was too undervalued. Whatever you bought, if you finally made it to making some kind of a product, the asset cost more. It was cool at the time. Then the trend has changed and we have changed as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

Today we should better be cool in three directions than have twenty directions which we have little understanding of. We bought the diamond plant together with NCHCapital (American Foundation NewCenturyHoldings. <\/span>\u2014EP<\/span><\/i>) and Varvarin.<\/span><\/p>\n

By the way, there is an interesting story behind buying the diamond factory. I won a box of champagne from a guy who produced real diamonds, and we made artificial ones. Poltava Diamond Factory makes such products as nail files, so those products are also measured in carats.<\/span><\/p>\n

This guy goes, \u201cI\u2019m the largest in Ukraine, I produce 5 million diamonds.\u201d And I go, \u201cYou don\u2019t understand. I\u2019m the largest. I produce 100 million diamonds.\u201d We made a bet. And then he goes, \u201cWait, these are other diamonds.\u201d I say, \u201cWe didn\u2019t mean carats but diamonds, right?\u201d \u201cRight\u201d. So, he lost.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWho was it?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI won\u2019t say his name. Diamond business is not as big as it seems.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIf I had graduated from Stanford, I would have probably behaved differently.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cHow did you become Donbasenergo shareholder?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cOh, I had a cool case with Donbasenergo. I bought Donbasenergo shares at UAH 30 and sold for UAH 40. Then I bought them for UAH 40 and sold for 60. Then I bought them for 60 \u2013 they started to drop to 40, but I bought more. When they fell to 20, I already bought a lot of them, and then they fell to 10 and it lasted ten years. Everything burnt.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHave you been interested in the energy business in a consistent manner?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cDefinitely not. I was not interested in energy business at all. We bought shares, believed that the company was growing, if it grew, we sold more. We had both Krymenergo and Zaporizhzhiaoblenergo. As a portfolio investor, we invested just in order to sell later.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cSooner or later, a businessman has to choose a profile. Why have you not decided on your profile being an independent businessman for 10-15 years?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI lacked knowledge and capabilities. A man comes to me and says: \u2018You can buy an apartment for 100 roubles and sell for 300\u2019. I say: \u2018Sounds interesting, let’s see what will come of it.\u2019 I bought it and sold for 300, so I earned. I liked the way it happened and began to understand more about how it worked. I see from an investor\u2019s point of view, if there is an opportunity.<\/span><\/p>\n

There are three things I surely don\u2019t engage with \u2013 weapons, drugs and business in Donetsk and Luhansk.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhen did you get these rules?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThese conditions were prescribed in our Articles of Association back in 1994. Even if we can earn 1000% on weapons, we will not deal with this. It destroys reputation.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cI see your point about drugs and weapons, but why was such a decision made regarding Donetsk and Luhansk?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThere was a dangerous criminal environment. We were afraid of this. We came from St. Petersburg and were not completely adjusted to it.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWas it really better in Zaporizhzhia where you bought Zaporizhstal?<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIt was less criminal, of course. How can you compare Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk? What do we need those risks for? For example, am I ready to do business with Zambia? No, I\u2019m not. There are big risks there. Why do I need this? I love to do business in the sphere I understand. Whether we won or not \u2013 I don\u2019t know. Maybe it was necessary to do business there, and now everything would have been different, Donetsk and Luhansk would be with us. I don\u2019t know.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat was your and Ivanov\u2019s block of shares with Zaporizhstal?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201c33%.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWas this plant also bought by chance?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNo, I’ll tell you now, it\u2019s another interesting story.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cI told about oil products, we processed them and then sold in Ukraine, mainly through \u201cBASPP\u201d (Boryspil administration for the supply of petroleum products. <\/span>– EP<\/span><\/i>). The capacity of their base is quite large \u2013 100 thousand tons. I remember, there was a director whose surname was Moroz, a cool guy.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, what we did on \u201cBASPP\u201d, we gave them oil products and then sold them at retail, but received money in coupons. An inflation rate was furious, and when we received money from sales, they were already devalued. Therefore, we were looking for some options.<\/span><\/p>\n

One of the options was to buy metal for coupons, sell it for export, get dollars and thus take real payment for oil products.<\/span><\/p>\n

The privatization of Zaporizhstal happened later. I worked with Varvarin in St. Petersburg, he told how these processes take place. I say: \u2018We earn. Let’s take part in privatization.\u2019 So that\u2019s the way it turned out.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cDid you have any shares in MPP?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYes, I had 15% in Inhulets MPP. I sold them either in 1992 or in 1995 to Vadym Novynskyi. Honestly, I didn\u2019t understand that MPP is more powerful than a plant at that time. I just really didn\u2019t understand that this business is better than Zaporizhstal. This business is really cooler.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhy aren’t you interested in its potential?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI can make any assumptions, but I was 28 then. I\u2019m not educated, just an assertive confident businessman who wanted to do business. If I had graduated from Stanford, were 42 years old, I would have probably behaved differently, but I look back at my 28 years old self, managing millions, being a millionaire.<\/span><\/p>\n

Have I made a mistake? I don\u2019t know. Maybe it was a mistake, but it could be an advantage, on the contrary! I would have gone to another system and would have been unsuccessful there.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThere were three groups of shareholders on Zaporizhstal: you and Ivanov, Ihor Dvoretskyi with Vitaliy Satskyi and Eduard Shifrin with Alex Schnaider. These three groups have always been perceived as heterogeneous. <\/b><\/p>\n

They say, Shifrin lent you money to buy shares in the plant. Why should he lend money to his competitors and increase their block of shares?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThere were 30 groups at Zaporizhstal, everyone of them bought metal. Those were all different businesses. There were more powerful groups where I could not get at all. There was a company that shipped hundreds of thousands of tons. And we all had small businesses and communicated with those we were acquainted with. We bought metal, delivered something\u2026 Those we were acquainted with were Dvoretskyi and Shifrin.<\/span><\/p>\n

I came to them and said: \u2018Guys, there is an opportunity to buy Zaporizhstal.\u2019 I was persuading them, and I saw that those people were not passionate about it at all. I convinced them that the three of us could buy Zaporizhstal for such and such amount.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWho was the third one? Ivanov?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNo, the third one was me. Shifrin and Dvoretskyi were from different groups.<\/span><\/p>\n

I go: \u2018When the plant is bought, we won\u2019t be here anymore, don\u2019t you understand? An owner will do everything here.\u2019 At that time, the price could be $ 50 million \u2013 easily (snaps his fingers <\/span>– EP<\/span><\/i>). At that time, it was huge money. I didn\u2019t have it. I say: \u2018Let’s make it this way: I buy the plant with your money, then we divide the profit, and I repay you.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cDid he agree because the idea belonged to you?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNot just the idea, we still need to understand the processes: to know what funds are being bought out, how the work team buys shares, whether they can be bought back from it and at what price. This is still a whole system to create.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cDid Satskyi\u2019s group stand apart from your group and the groups of Dvoretskyi and Shifrin?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cSatskyi\u2019s group formed along the way, when they united with Dvoretskyi. I was in charge of privatization. Edik and Alex were responsible for the export of metal, they had a branch in Toronto. Ihor was in charge of local issues. Good combination. I borrowed $ 20 million from them, bought my share, and then I repaid them from the profit.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAm I an oligarch indeed? With no press and no political influence?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>You have been a people’s deputy since the late 1990s. Based on the fact that you were not an active legislator, you probably classically used the mandate as a defence for your business. Whom did you protect yourself from?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cEverybody.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWho attacked you?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cEverybody. Prosecutors, police, tax agency, also politicians loved to do it. In fact, throughout all of time, we were not a super-large, but well-off, independent team. There are super-oligarchs, we don\u2019t belong to them.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAre you average oligarchs then?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI would not use the word \u2018oligarch\u2019 at all. Am I an oligarch indeed? With no press and no political influence?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHow did your being people\u2019s deputy help with the business protection?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat happens in practice? Somebody is put in jail \u2013 the company collapses. So it was with Khodorkovsky and others. And you know what? I could not be put in jail anymore. If there was no other way, if my companies had any problems, I was free to get busy with providing legally protection for them.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cCan you recall any attacks on your business?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI remember a lot of attacks, but I would better not tell about them, unless you object. There were attacks even after Maidan, when I was no longer a deputy.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhen did you decide to stop dealing with regional industrial assets, which were non-core for a group, and to focus on investments in Kyiv?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI learn and read a lot. I read a book of Welch, CEO of General Electric; he was the best manager of the last century. He says: \u2018We are interested in either the first or the second company on the market\u2019. That is, \u2018we should be either the first or the second. Everything else is not interesting.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, we sat down to list in what industry we can be first or second. Can it be metallurgy? It can\u2019t. So, we decided to focus on construction investments. And we technically have kept the brand of the first or second company for seven or eight years.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat year was this decision made?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cProbably in 1999-2000.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cSo you decided to invest in the capital?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWe decided to invest in real estate, and the capital is the most investment-attractive city.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHave you met\u00a0<\/b>Omelchenko<\/b><\/a> straight away?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWe are not a small company by Kyiv standards, we are trying to maintain smooth relations with all mayors, but not to be too close with them.<\/span><\/p>\n

I have met with Omelchenko exactly as many times that I have met with Chernovetskyi and Klitschko. I saw Klitschko three times in five years and I saw Omelchenko maybe two times and Chernovetskyi about three times.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cTo make decisions, private meetings are not necessary.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIf you analyse the construction business of Kyiv, you will see that we are a company that meets the standards. Suppose we are building \u201cNovopecherski Lypky\u201d, 700 thousand square meters of housing, but we are also building 140 thousand square meters of parking lots. Nobody wants to build parking lots \u2018cause it\u2019s not profitable, but we still do it, because we understand: nobody wants traffic jams.<\/span><\/p>\n

We build schools and kindergartens, and I\u2019m not ashamed of any of our objects. What we do is good for whoever governs the city. If today I call the mayor from Unit.City and say: \u2018We are building a high-tech park, creating workplaces. Can we meet and talk about it?\u2019 He will probably make an appointment, but I just never had questions.<\/span><\/p>\n

We\u2019ve got \u201cZhuliany\u201d airport. How can I not communicate if the mayor asks for something? If this is something reasonable, then he will also help.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cI was not acquainted with either Kuchma\u2019s wife or Kuchma himself\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWhose idea was to create \u201cKyivenergoholding\u201d <\/b>(established in 2006, the company in whose ownership the Kyiv authorities transferred the city owned blocks of shares of Kyivenergo, Kyivgaz and Kyivvodokanal – <\/span>EP<\/span><\/i>)<\/span>, and how did you become a co-owner of this project?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cFrankly speaking, I don\u2019t even know. Some time, Andrii Ivanov was engaged with this. I don\u2019t understand why. We had some small shares of Kyivenergo, on which basis something was cycling. Now I can\u2019t even remember.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWell, it turns out that companies affiliated with Ivanov and you were partners of city companies in this project. Obviously, the city authorities don\u2019t take in partners anybody out of the blue. So, I come to a conclusion that then there was a relationship between you and the city authorities.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cHaven\u2019t I told you the story behind \u201cZaporizhstal\u201d? I spelled it out for you. People from the outside are trying to dress it up somehow: \u2018No, it was Kuchma who helped him to buy the plant through his wife.\u2019 I was not acquainted with either Kuchma\u2019s wife or Kuchma himself. I was in his office only once in my life when I still was a deputy, but people still overinterpret things.<\/span><\/p>\n

Was it right to start \u201cKyivenergoholding\u201d? With hindsight, it was probably wrong. We should have bought shares on the stock exchange and made the holding private. It was a hybrid and it fell apart. If you want to know whether I had unsuccessful businesses – yes, half of them. Just the other half overlaps them.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThe question is that this project is the evidence that Khmelnytsky and Ivanov were partners of the city authorities in a specific project.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m a specific partner of the city authorities in \u201cZhuliany\u201d project, I\u2019m building an airport. Now I finish the new terminal that costs 630 million UAH. People will be flying comfortably. This is a positive public-private partnership project.<\/span><\/p>\n

Do I ask Klitschko\u2019s permission? No, I don\u2019t. This is just a project. No schemes. The same thing happened with \u201cKyivenergoholding\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhen did you resign from \u201cKyivenergoholding\u201d shareholders?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cFrankly speaking, I don\u2019t remember. It was Andrii Ivanov who was responsible for it and knows more. The thing is, we divide our projects between ourselves. We are not partners in every project. For example, he is not a partner in Unit.City project. There are projects where I\u2019m not a partner. I think the project is complicated, and he believes in it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Besides, I have many partners in my projects except for Ivanov. I love the partnership, but even if we have a joint business, we have a responsible person. Suppose, I\u2019m responsible for this, he is responsible for that. With \u201cKyivenergoholding\u201d, he was more responsible.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThat is, I may not even try to ask why Suprunenko <\/b>(Viacheslav, the son-in-law of the then mayor of Kyiv Leonid Chernovetskyi <\/span>– EP<\/span><\/i>)<\/span> bought your package in the holding.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNo reason. Probably, because he paid good money. Would it be not Suprunenko…\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWas there any pressure from the city authorities on you both as businessmen? The larger the business, the more opportunities to influence it.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWant a frank answer? First, there wasn\u2019t any, but even if it were, why would I tell you this?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cYou could say \u2018Next question\u2019 and everything would be clear.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cBusiness doesn\u2019t like to share when it loses. I\u2019m telling you that there was nothing here, it just was not quite efficient business. They offered money and we probably sold it. There was just no profit.<\/span><\/p>\n

We have no conflicts with any business group.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThis is another thing.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWe\u2019ll better give way somewhere, we don\u2019t like conflicts. Usually people get into conflicts, spend a huge amount of money and time on them, and after a while, both their groups lose. We are quite a flexible team. It happens so that we even compromise, but who we fight to the bitter end with are raiders and extortionists.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHas this flexibility anything to do with Dmitrii Varvarin’s tragic end?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNothing of the kind.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cPerhaps, that example taught you that it\u2019s more profitable to be flexible.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t know what exactly happened to him, to be honest.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHe was killed.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWhy was he killed? Because he played a little in local politics, had a big business in Russia and in Ukraine?.. I absolutely don\u2019t understand what it was connected with.<\/span><\/p>\n

He was killed around 2000, and we broke up with him, stopped doing business together in 1996. For four years, he had been building his own business there, and I was building mine here, in Ukraine. At that time, we almost didn\u2019t communicate. I was at the funeral, it was a tragedy for me.<\/span><\/p>\n

It was for me like losing a teacher. Whatever it cost, it was a loss. However, I don\u2019t know why. Maybe because of the rigidity, or maybe he stepped on somebody\u2019s toes.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThere was no goal to bankrupt \u201cKhreschatyk\u201d. It was the National Bank strategy.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYour business is called \u201cKyiv Investment Group\u201d<\/b> (The name originates from the company of the same name, which since 2005 has managed the key assets of Khmelnytsky and Ivanov. It was liquidated in 2013. <\/span>– EP<\/span><\/i>).<\/span><\/p>\n

You call it the investment fund, but it accumulated what you could buy, working on the principle \u2018buy cheaper, sell more expensive\u2019.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYes, exactly.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHow did you become an owner of \u201cKhreschatyk\u201d Bank?<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cKhreschatyk\u201d Bank? I don\u2019t remember the story, because Ivanov was responsible for this. I just remember how we didn\u2019t agree on the \u201cKhreschatyk\u201d Bank issue.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cTell me, please.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI have had different businesses, I see where the world moves. Why did we sell \u201cZaporizhstal\u201d? We sold it a year before the crisis (in 2007 – <\/span>EP<\/span><\/i>). If we kept it for a while, we would have collapsed. We sold it because we saw: Ukraine has only 10% on the market. Everything is connected with export.<\/span><\/p>\n

Those plants to which we export begin to construct new plants. For example, Turkey and China. I can see that when they finish constructing plants, our exports will decrease, and the cost will fall. Therefore, while the construction is not completed, we decided to sell the business.<\/span><\/p>\n

All in all, it was the right decision. Then another crisis hit, and \u201cZaporizhstal\u201d was affected substantially. Although today it\u2019s not on a bad score.<\/span><\/p>\n

I saw it in advance. This is like now I see that the Internet is replacing shopping malls. Not that much here, but it happens gradually, and now it\u2019s global.<\/span><\/p>\n

In America, they have 20% of online sales. Take away 20% from shopping centre\u2019s profit \u2013 and they are bankrupt. In the US, some hypermarket goes bankrupt every day. We watch this, so I\u2019m not building hypermarkets outside Kyiv right now. This is not a trend any more.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now back to \u201cKhreschatyk\u201d bank. We\u2019ve got 40 banks that got collapsed. The tendency of the state was clear: they would crush the banking system in order to reduce the number of participants. Moreover, new technologies make it possible to pay by card, by phone, and the banks are no more as profitable as before.<\/span><\/p>\n

I can see it because that\u2019s what I deal with. I told Ivanov a year before the bankruptcy of the bank, saying: \u2018Let’s sell it to the partners. The partners (Dvoretskyi) were ready to give us pretty good money for it. But he went: \u2018No, it\u2019s not enough, we can get more.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

I still confirm that there was no goal to bankrupt the bank. It was the strategy of the National Bank – to clear up the market. If there was only \u201cKhreschatyk\u201d Bank which went bankrupt, then it would be possible to find fault with us, but there were 80 banks, and they were larger than ours.<\/span><\/p>\n

It was clear to me that we would not get the better price, that there would be stagnation of the global banking system, and the state\u2019s goal is to clear up the market. I said to Ivanov: \u2018Sell it, or buy out my share\u2019. So, I went out of the deal. If you look up the NBU registers, there is a record that I quit a year before the bankruptcy. I saw where it was going.<\/span><\/p>\n

Andrii stayed, doing his best, this was his right. I was no longer a shareholder.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>Before your quit, an additional issue was made, as a result of which the share of Kyiv was diluted. How, in this context, is it possible to correctly estimate the relations of KIG owners with city authorities? Why did the city authorities not respond to this case?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI can\u2019t say for sure, but what is an additional issue? All parties must invest money. One side says, “Listen, I have no money. Well, I have no money now.\u2019 It could be me or you.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHow, in your opinion, Ivanov\u2019s image losses from \u201cKhreschatyk\u201d bankruptcy related to the benefits from the absence of settlements on the bank\u2019s debts? Was there more harm or benefit?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cBankruptcy is always bad. Any bankruptcy has negative consequences. There was such a situation that it was not only one bank \u2013 the system collapsed. This was done on purpose. There was no chance for banks to survive. I thought at that time that \u201cKhreschatyk\u201d bank was doomed, just like the rest of the banks.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cYou still had \u201cReal Bank\u201d. Why do you need a bank in Kharkiv?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNo idea. It was Andrii Ivanov\u2019s business. To tell the truth, I visited that bank just twice in my life, and I visited \u201cKhreschatyk\u201d once.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWas it Serhiy Kurchenko who bought\u00a0<\/b>“Real Bank”<\/b><\/a>\u00a0<\/span>from you?\u201d <\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWe sold it to one of our bank\u2019s shareholders, and then he resold it.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWho was it?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cSeriously, I didn\u2019t keep an eye on it.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cNobody calls me about the land bank. Today it has no value\u201d.<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIs it true that KIG has 2 thousand hectares of land in Kyiv?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWell, probably now it\u2019s less than 2 thousand hectares. This was a long time ago. Now we still have some land, not quite right in Kyiv. There are some collective farms on the outskirts that have land in Kyiv, maybe 300-500 hectares.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThat is, there were about 2 thousand hectares, and now there are 500 hectares?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s false information about 2 thousand hectares. We had a bank of land in Kyiv and in the region. Suppose, we had a collective farm with 500 hectares on its balance. Now this land has no value, it\u2019s a burden. We don\u2019t have such amount of land in Kyiv.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cDidn\u2019t you increase your land bank in the Klitschko years?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIn the Klitschko years we just successfully lost the land bank.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWas it taken from you?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNo, one day we gave up the land, another day we sold it. Today it\u2019s not an asset.<\/span><\/p>\n

Today a person calls me and says: \u2018Vasyl Ivanovych, I have 2 hectares of land in the outskirts of the city. I want to do something with them.\u2019 I go: \u2018Give me $ 1 million, and I’ll take it from you.\u2019 He: \u2018What do you mean?\u2019 Me: \u2018I will take and serve it, pay rent, hold it for ten years.\u2019 He: \u2018You don\u2019t understand, it\u2019s me who wants 1 million.\u2019 Me: \u2018Then don\u2019t call.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

Therefore, nobody calls me about the land bank. Today it has no value. Probably, in the centre of the city, on Khreshchatyk, 2 hectares is a value, but we are not building on 2 hectares. We are only interested in complex development.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>If you didn\u2019t increase your land bank under Klitschko, it means that you have formed it under Omelchenko and Chernovetskyi. Can you say that these purchases were civilized, not for bribes?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThey surely were not for bribes. Quite the opposite, they were made in accordance with current legislation. That’s how it was. I give my word.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWe have very flexible legislation.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s flexible, but there are different approaches. You can buy not land, but property. We are in Unit.City now. We bought not the land, but a\u00a0<\/span>plant<\/span><\/a> on 20 hectares of land. We can consider it a plant, and we can consider it as land. Is it violation? Of course not.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cYou bought it as a motor factory from the SPF?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYes.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cYou probably bought it with an investment commitment to start producing motorcycles.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWas there an obligation to produce motorcycles here? There was, and we have performed it. There were workshops where we have been producing motorcycles and spare parts for five years. When this time has expired, we went to the Kyiv City Council and changed the assigned purpose of a project, started a new one. Now there is Unit.City here. Are there any violations? No.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhen was the last time you bribed?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI never personally bribed in my life.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s clear that you personally didn\u2019t do this, but you have assistants.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cSo you need to ask them. How can I say for my assistants? Do you know what\u2019s disappointing? Nobody ever gave bribes to me. Actually, no one at all. I would have probably refused, but I would like to know what it feels like.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>Let’s go back to the present times. There is, for example, Ihor Kolomoyskyi, whose group is conventionally called \u201cPrivat\u201d. Is your group called \u201cKyiv Investment Group\u201d?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThere is no \u201cKyiv Investment Group\u201d. My current businesses and social projects are collected under the brand UFuture.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAre you the only owner of UFuture?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m the only one, but in separate businesses I\u2019m the co-owner with Andrii Ivanov.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>UFuture website distinguishes its nine main directions of activity. In how many of them is Andrii Ivanov your partner?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cHe is my partner in seven directions. We have known each other for 25 years. We are in a transition period – we want to bring the issue of holdings out of the shadowy economy, officially register the shares, bring the shares together.<\/span><\/p>\n

It used to be difficult, because we were in a wild business. Now it\u2019s more and more civilized, we are heading to Europe, we need to show a more systematic and transparent structure. Our lawyers and attorneys are working on this.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cYou used to say: \u2018Ivanov goes where I go, I go where Ivanov goes\u2019.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYou see, everything has changed. Now I go without Ivanov, and Ivanov goes without me.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhy is everything changed so much?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWe have different strategies. For example, he doesn\u2019t pursue innovation, he just doesn\u2019t believe in this business. He believes that it\u2019s risky and low-profit. This business is really risky and not very profitable, but I like it. I think it\u2019s not profitable now, and in five to ten years it will be a cool business. I play longer game than Andrii.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cNow you have an ad hoc partnership? Different but equal partners?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWe are not equal after all.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIs he less?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI’m senior, I have 65%, he has 35%.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIn all these seven directions?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYes. Two years ago, we had seven partners, we bought shares from five of them and just two of us left.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cPlease name these five.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cValerii Kodetskyi, Vadym Hryvkovskyi, Oleh Polishchuk, Mykola Shmidt and Serhii Pavlenko.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cCan we say that you’d gone your separate ways?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cSomewhere we invest together, and somewhere separately. The world is changing, people are changing. I feel comfortable working with him, but we don\u2019t always go together right now.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhich of the nine UFuture projects is prioritized?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s UDP Renewables (investment and development company in the renewable energy sector \u2014\u00a0<\/span>EP<\/span><\/i>). \u2018Green\u2019 energy is a good trend. Andrii Ivanov is my partner in this project. We are planning to build 300 MW in five years, and also considering WPS projects for a 100 MW.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIs belonging to you \u201cBiopharma\u201d your core business?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cAt first we thought it was a \u201cbuy-sell\u201d, but now we see it more of a core business. It develops well. We have two plants and are building the third. I think it may be a cool core business. I have two more partners there.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cI want to work not with DTEK, but with Google\u201d.<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIs the Unit.City project the main one of these nine?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t know. Time will tell. I think this will be known in a year, when the degree of its readiness will increase. The success of the project will depend on how we\u2019ll form the market, whether we can create an ecosystem. Unit.City is not so much a property as an ecosystem, and an ecosystem is also a human factor.<\/span><\/p>\n

Will we be able to create a community that will \u201cdrive\u201d? So far, I’m happy with the project and I think we will. It will be a really cool one.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIs big business in Ukraine investing in innovations?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t rub shoulders with anyone on innovations, because I\u2019m building not an innovation company, but a platform for innovation. There are different innovations that meet in Unit.City: from medicine to IT. This is the platform where you develop.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAre you going to look for a partner for Unit.City development?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWe are. It will be faster and more efficient. But we need a Western partner who has experience in innovative projects, in construction, in creating an ecosystem. We are not looking for a Ukrainian partner.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cDo you need a partner not as a money bag, but as know-how?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI need a partner\u2019s knowledge. How do I like to make a partnership? Here we are, building something. I need a partner who is super professional in this sphere.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIf we are engaged in solar energy, our partners is Spanish company \u201cAcciona\u201d, which is super cool in the \u2018green\u2019 energy. We have a financial flow, but most importantly – their skills are available to us. We understand how they do it in the world and what they are successful in. A year has passed – and we caught up with them.<\/span><\/p>\n

Money is not actually the question. If I find an innovation fund that invests in start-ups in such projects, I would be interested in this fund. I would get their customers\u2019 database who could be dragged here.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>Are you looking for partners for other projects? For example, partnership with DTEK in the \u2018green\u2019 energy.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cDTEK is cool in energy. Why do they need a partnership? I’m talking about innovations. These are different things. DTEK Academy has opened its office with us. The Academy is what we are interested in: professors come from Stanford, improving us academically. If DTEK wanted to move here, I would not take it. Coal and mines are something different.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWould you not take it as a partner or\u2026?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cAs a partner. They need to work with General Electric, and not with Khmelnitsky. I want to work not with DTEK, but with Google, which has extensive experience in the field of innovation.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>Everything you\u2019ve sold you call unpromising or of little interest. However, Zaporizhstal is operating quite well now. Have you underestimated the objects being sold or is it due to the talent of their current owners?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWho bought Zaporizhstal? The people who have experience and an integrated structure (the plant is owned by Metinvest group of Rinat Akhmetov – <\/span>EP<\/span><\/i>).<\/span><\/p>\n

Aside from Inhulets MPP, Zaporizhstal is going to close their processing shop. If I depended on them, and if they took the risk of not selling me the raw materials, my economy would be collapsed right away. There are many dependencies in that sphere. For a person who\u2019s got both MPP, coal mines and coke, it\u2019s easier to control all of this.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHave you completely cleared your group of low-performing businesses?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNot yet.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat else is low-performing?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThere are objects that we have bought but consider to be not quite good. For example, before the crisis, we bought a project in Truskavets, with more than 100 hectares of land, paid $ 15 million to the budget. The land market has fallen, there is no development, and we still pay the rent. If today someone would buy this land for 50% of the investment price, we would be happy.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhich of your industrial projects are worth selling?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cAll that we take, we bring to the end. \u201cZhuliany\u201d is developing well now.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat does an airport development plan look like?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThe problem is that it\u2019s closed within the city. Even if passenger traffic grows, the development is limited. We have seven low-cost carriers. People can fly inexpensively from \u201cZhuliany\u201d. Now we need to make it comfortable as well. <\/span><\/p>\n

There is a subtle aspect. Many passengers can pass through \u201cZhuliany\u201d, but planes fly just in the morning and in the evening. They are empty at night and at daytime, but full in the morning. I had to build a terminal to make it comfortable.<\/span><\/p>\n

We are investing $ 20 million, and two months later we are handing over a new terminal. In the afternoon it will still be empty but at rush hours, people will be more comfortable.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIs it possible to evenly distribute passenger traffic throughout the day?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cImpossible. This is due to the airport of entry. For example, Paris doesn\u2019t accept at this time. We would like to pay dividends, but in order to create comfort, we invest in the construction of the airport and going to finish it in two months. Kindly invite you to the opening. It will be a pleasure if <\/span>Ukrayinska Pravda<\/span><\/i> writes that there is something good in Ukraine.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cDo you make decisions on the development of \u201cZhuliany\u201d on your own?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t make decisions at all. My system is such that I don\u2019t know what is being built in \u201cNovopecherski Lypky\u201d. There is a partner, he is motivated, he has a share, he is looking for the best options. Sometimes he doesn\u2019t even get my approvals.<\/span><\/p>\n

The case with \u201cZhuliany\u201d is the following. I have a partner Denis Kostrzhevskiy. Very pragmatic, down-to-earth guy. She is hard-working and efficient.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIs the airport completely under his control?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cCompletely. I conducted a tour for foreign guests. I go: \u2018Look, we\u2019ve built two terminals.\u2019 And Denys goes: \u2018Three.\u2019 Me: \u2018Do we have three terminals? Exactly!\u2019 I don\u2019t control the current state. This is a managerial system.<\/span><\/p>\n

The first person of the company should not be at the top, but be in the thick of things. Therefore, my managers, as a rule, often know the process better than me. It\u2019s dangerous if I start making decisions and managing projects emotionally.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThen what is the role of <\/b>Yurii Ivanushchenko<\/b><\/a>\u00a0<\/span>in \u201cZhuliany\u201d project?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThere was a company that offered us to invest in an airport at that time. We cooperated with it. We are open, and we need investments. Then I learned that this company was related to Ivanushchenko.<\/span><\/p>\n

They didn\u2019t invest, so I bought their share in \u201cZhuliany\u201d from them, by the way, quite inexpensively. Now our group has 90%, 10% is Denis Kostrzhevskiy\u2019s share.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThat is, Ivanushchenko quit the airport project. When did it happen?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cAbout three years ago.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cYou have too many social projects for a person who is not going to return to politics or doesn\u2019t want some kind of feedback from society. Why all these social investments?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cSuppose, people came to you and say: \u2018Please give us 200 UAH for the construction of the cathedral.\u2019 Will you give them?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cI will\u201d.<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat’s so pragmatic about it? It\u2019s just 200 UAH for you is like 200 thousand or 1 million UAH for me. I think the way you would: \u2018Well, cool. I will build a school and people will learn, they will raise their level of knowledge, I\u2019ll have a new community.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThe question is why do you invest in these projects?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI invest to develop my business. If I invest in small and medium businesses, I train people, then I look for projects with them and we invest together. I earn a little from this, but I still have an indirect benefit: the market is growing, small and medium businesses are growing, and together this improves the economic situation in the country.<\/span><\/p>\n

You can save the country by raising small and medium businesses. This is our task. There is a good proverb: \u2018I do what I can, but it will be as it will be.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

I try to create an ecosystem that will encourage people to wake up, not to bide their time, but to do something on their own. When I speak, my main message is: don\u2019t waste your time, make decisions, learn, invest your knowledge, create a product, earn some money, create workplaces, move the economics.<\/span><\/p>\n

This should be the goal of any big business: to raise a small one. Subsequently, the economy will rise, and there will be additional buyers.<\/span><\/p>\n

The economics is profitable for all businessmen. In Ukraine, people are not very fond of business, but it\u2019s really cool \u2013 to raise small, medium businesses, when people take risks, earn money, pay taxes, and then the economics moves.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAfter meeting with the presidents, I wanted to sell everything and go abroad\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cAren\u2019t these investments related to your desire to return to politics?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cOh dear! If you ever see that I have given at least one kopeck to some presidential candidate, I will do somersaults. I\u2019m not going to be a people\u2019s deputies either.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>You have been a people’s deputy for 17 years. Why are you so distanced from politics now? Are you sick of it?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThe world has changed. Now it\u2019s reputational friendly to be neither deputy, nor a businessman. Besides, the world has tightened so much that if you are a deputy, you will not open a bank account. You are a PEP (politically exposed person – <\/span>EP<\/span><\/i>), you are perceived differently. Yes, it used to be that way, now it’s different.<\/span><\/p>\n

I better now be away from politics. When a person tells me that he has a political idea, I reply: \u2018Listen, you are to the wrong quarter. Go away.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cSo, you no longer need to protect your business?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m not a deputy now, but I\u2019m also not a director of any company. I\u2019m more of a mentor, shareholder. Why would they want to put me to jail? Of course, any person can be jailed. Including a deputy. The president of Brazil is imprisoned. That’s not the point. The point is that I have no field for violations or infringements.<\/span><\/p>\n

I pay taxes. Over 2018, I received 25 million UAH of dividends and paid a tax from them. I\u2019m served by law firm of Baker McKenzie, they accompany all my declarations. Can I be imprisoned? You can find fault with me crossing the road in the wrong place and put me in jail. Everything is possible in this country, but with me it will not be easy.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cDon\u2019t you think that large Ukrainian business stuck in the late 1990s, concentrating on assets built in the Soviet era?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThis is true. Three times a year, I travel to Israel, the USA, Korea, China with my team. I see how everything is moving forward. Many Ukrainian businessmen have a primitive view of the things.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>People from large business occasionally meet. Do you see Kolomoyskyi, Akhmetov?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019ve been to those meetings quite a few times. I’d rather have an individual meeting with a businessman with whom I have the same vision. Recently, three presidents met with business and non-governmental organizations. I respect all three of them, but the impression of the meeting left me with a desire to sell everything and go abroad. Me, a guy who is not afraid of difficulties.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWere the three presidents Kravchuk, Kuchma and Yushchenko?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYes. I wanted to ask them a question: \u2018Please, give some advice, what do we need to do in order for the economic situation to improve?\u2019 The response was: \u2018Corruption. The budget is plundered.\u2019 You come out in such a depression that there is little choice but to emigrate. I get home, calm down and next morning I roll up my sleeves again and go forward. <\/span><\/p>\n

Anyway, there are some positive things. I give you 90% that I will come to any governor (the head of the regional state administration – <\/span>EP<\/span><\/i>) and say: \u2018Please give me a piece of land, and three or four plants will be built here.\u2019 I\u2019m sure that 80% of them will say: \u2018You go and do it. We think it\u2019s good for us.\u2019 And they will not ask for money.<\/span><\/p>\n

Another thing is that they don\u2019t have the skills, that this needs to be stimulated, this needs to be developed, they need to learn themselves. It turns out that the most important thing about plants is not the future taxes, but the people who earn their wages. This is what people don\u2019t understand. They say: \u2018How many taxes will we have to pay? Will you build us a road instead?\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

The task is to build a factory and pay a good, decent salary to people who then come to the store and buy things that are also starting to be produced. It\u2019s just a model. Even without realizing this, they are ready to support you and not to interfere when you do something. This is already an important step.<\/span><\/p>\n

I communicate with young people. There are hundreds of guys whose eyes are burning, they want to do something. So you need to support them, as it was in Poland. Give them grants, cheap loans and let them build. It drives me up.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAm I right in understanding that you are not even trying to talk to Pinchuk, Kolomoyskyi or Akhmetov about the implementation of some major project in Ukraine? You say you like partnership.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t have an interesting commercial offer for Pinchuk, Kolomoyskyi or Akhmetov. For example, Unit.City will have been built for 12 years. Do you understand this? I have only been adding funds for three years. They will say: \u2018Vasia, are you OK?\u2019 They will ask the same question as you: \u2018Are you going to return to politics?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>Then explain why it takes 12 years to complete the project? Is this investment so stretched in time due to lack of free money?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNo. This project is built as a staircase. We first built one cluster. If I had built 200 thousand square meters in a year, and only 5 thousand square meters were occupied, then 95% of the area would have been empty, and the whole market would have said: \u2018He probably miscalculated.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

So I build not 5, but 3.5 thousand square meters, and thus create a stir: \u2018Oh, you have five there, we want more!\u2019 There will be the same 200 thousand but in five years, and everything will be occupied. There is an economic model of consistency.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhy is a large Ukrainian business not making long-term investments?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI invite you to the opening of the plant for plasma production. We open it in May. You will see how innovative this plant is.<\/span><\/p>\n

To build it, you need four or five years and some talent. This is really a very complicated machine. Just so you understand, there is no such plant for 2 thousand kilometres around. We are alone in this space, therefore the world brands are fighting against us.<\/span><\/p>\n

The whole world wants Ukraine to buy, not to produce. They have a problem with selling to us. We say them in the West: \u2018Do you want to build a plant here?\u2019 \u2018No, guys, buy from us. We will give you a loan so that you can buy from us.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

I say: \u2018No way, we will build and you buy from us. That\u2019s the free market\u2019. They say: \u2018No, we only need raw materials from you. Grow wheat and we will make pasta to sell it to you.\u2019 But this won\u2019t do.<\/span><\/p>\n

Come to the opening of the plant! You are <\/span>Ukrayinska Pravda<\/span><\/i> (\u2018Ukrainian Truth\u2019) after all. Aren\u2019t you those with innovative minds? Don\u2019t you understand that you need to show some positive things going on in the country? When we laid a foundation of this plant, just two cameras came, in only one of them showed the event, and when there was a problem, 50 cameras came.<\/span><\/p>\n

Start changing society with me. For example, make a \u201cPositive News\u201d column. I want to warn that you will lose some audience, but don\u2019t worry, you will reach out to those people who will say: \u2018If <\/span>Ukrayinska Pravda<\/span><\/i> says that something changes, we will definitely start acting.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cDid you have anything to do with \u201cOcean Plaza\u201d?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI did.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>Considering how we now treat Russian capital in Ukraine, have you received offers from Rotenberg to buy this project?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYes, I wanted to buy \u201cOcean Plaza\u201d off at some stage, maybe I will even do it someday. The thing is, \u201cOcean Plaza\u201d is now cheaper than when we sold it.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIs<\/b> Rotenberg<\/b><\/a>\u00a0<\/span>ready to sell it?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t know, I don\u2019t communicate with Rotenberg. I communicate with his management company. They are ready to consider quitting the \u201cOcean Plaza\u201d for some money.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWere it they who approached you or was it you who approached them?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIt was me because I saw problems there. I said: \u2018I\u2019m a Ukrainian entrepreneur, I will buy it. Let thousands of tenants not worry.\u2019 This is a small and medium business. Imagine \u201cOcean Plaza\u201d closing and three thousand people who invested money finding themselves on the street. What\u2019s good in this?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHow much you are ready to pay?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t know, I have to see their cash flow. I don\u2019t know anything about their cash flow.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cGiven that Ukraine\u2019s value is somewhere at the bottom, how do you estimate your business?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThis is the most interesting question. I\u2019m ready to estimate what I\u2019m ready to be paid for, but today nobody is willing to pay.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m rated the 60th among the top 100 richest people in Ukraine. 50% of people on this list who are above me are bankrupt. I just know it. They only have assets. But I don\u2019t have accounts receivable and payable balances. Do you understand?<\/span><\/p>\n

Their assets are estimated somehow, but it\u2019s not shown how much a person owes, how much he is owed. When you bear it in mind, you’ll see that these people have no money.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat is the financial balance of your group now?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWe have a positive balance. The whole group owes $ 100 million, and we used to owe $ 500 million. Here is my balance.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIs your capital position up to $ 0.5 billion or more?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cThe group\u2019s capital position? About 0.5 billion. I\u2019m not a billionaire for sure. More or less 20% of 0.5 billion. We can cost 600 or 400. Something like this.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>Businessmen often say that everything is sold and bought, it\u2019s only a matter of price. Can you sell everything your group owns?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cNo. I will see what the perspective will be.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat is it you surely won’t sell?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s Unit.City, because it has a really powerful perspective in three or four years. Really powerful. It may cost more money. This is my prototype for creating ecosystems in developing countries.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201c<\/span>Why is it so valuable? For example, tomorrow a Chinese corporation will buy a hectare of land in Kyiv, construct a 20-storey building using state-of-the-art technologies and say: \u2018Thank you, Vasyl Khmelnytsky, you\u2019ll drop off here.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cWhy in Kyiv? It\u2019s cheaper to construct in Zhmerynka.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cExplain, please.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYou can construct something in Zhmerynka, but there is no community there. You will be alone in the village, there will be cows and a man on a tractor around. What\u2019s the point? And I\u2019m doing an ecosystem here.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cSo you are doing some kind of brain concentration hub?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cExactly. Brains, talents, all the advanced resources.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWhy is it so important given the level of logistics development? Why concentrate brains in one place of the country?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cDo you know how start-ups are created? Suppose you go to some event, we have 300 events a year here, and you meet someone and go: \u2018Listen, my friend, what\u2019s your business?\u2019 He: \u2018I sell shoes.\u2019 And you go: \u2018I have a system of sales all over the world. Let\u2019s make a sale of shoes of such a such size in Africa.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

So you talked and created a new product. Then you went to the next office, and there they say: \u2018We are a law firm, we work around the world.\u2019 They have an accountant, a lawyer. Whoops! -Everything is done. This is an ecosystem. What are the odds of meeting all these people in the village? And here I have a great chance.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAre there any important things I didn’t ask you about?\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cMy main message is: the world is changing fast, you have to keep up with the times. Not to catch up, but to create new products and new trends. We do it at Unit.City. <\/span><\/p>\n

I can advise your readers to learn, to invest knowledge in specific projects and to do business. This is the only way you can keep the lights on. There is no point in complaining about life, about politics, about presidents, about deputies. It\u2019s ineffective, it drives a person into negative emotions.<\/span><\/p>\n

I hope, <\/span>Ukrayinska Pravda<\/span><\/i> will create a special good news department to tell about promising projects and will support start-ups.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cYou will be the editor of this department.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m ready!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Sourse:\u00a0\u00a0www.epravda.com.ua<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

His assets include \u201cKyiv\u201d Airport, Unit.City and the UDP company, which implemented the \u201cNovopecherski Lypky\u201d, \u201cParkove Mistechko\u201d and \u201cOcean Plaza\u201d…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4927"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4927"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4927\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4943,"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4927\/revisions\/4943"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4927"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4927"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/ufuture.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4927"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}